My sourdough pain de mie sandwich bread is pure white bread in all its glory–and it’s the toast lover’s best friend. Each slice is remarkably soft and light, with the thinnest possible crust, but when toasted, the slice crisps and frizzles in an absolutely ideal fashion. A few slices of this bread toasted within an inch of burning and served with a thick pat of butter on top might just be your new favorite breakfast. But there’s a depth of flavor to be found here, too, that sets it far apart from any supermarket white loaf: mild fermentation flavors and a touch of sweetness, all with the slightest hint of tang.
This style of bread is often called a Pullman Loaf, owing to the use of the Pullman pan, which purportedly was invented to be used in Pullman cars on a train to save space when baking. If you’re a frequent visitor here at The Perfect Loaf, you’ll know that the Pullman pan has pretty much supplanted all my other sandwich bread baking vessels. I love that bread baked in this pan has very straight sides, and that using the lid when baking results in a loaf that has an ultra-thin crust.
Sourdough Pain de Mie Video Walkthrough
Flour Selection
It’s rare for me to bake bread without any whole grain flour, but I make an exception with this recipe. In testing, I played with many flour blends, but in the end, I settled on using only all-purpose flour. By not using any whole grain flour in the dough (and the levain), you end up with bread that has reduced sourness and the lightest and most open interior possible.
Special Pans and Preparation
You can bake this bread in almost any pan that’s the right size, but I love the straight sides and nonstick liner of my USA Pan Pullman Loaf Pan (9″ x 4″ x 4″). If you slide on the cover before baking, you’ll end up with a loaf with four perfectly straight sides.
I’ve created a table of alternate pans with corresponding dough weights for each so that you can use what pan(s) you have and/or experiment with different sizes and shapes of loaves. Feel free to halve the recipe ingredients below to fit one pan, or even double the recipe and split it among 2 to 3 smaller pans.
| Pan (Dimensions in inches) | Total Dough Weight |
| 9 x 4 x 4 (Pullman pan shown in this post) | 800-900g |
| 8.5 x 4.5 x 2.5 (small loaf pan) | 600-700g |
| 9 x 5 x 2.75 (medium loaf pan) | 700-800g |
| 13 x 4 x 4 (large Pullman pan) | 1,100-1,200g |
Regardless of the pan you use, be sure to liberally grease the inside of the pan to ensure that the bread will come out cleanly after baking. Additionally, check out my post on shaping a pan loaf for tips on shaping, pans, and more.
Note: If using a large 13-inch Pullman pan, during shaping divide the dough into three equal-sized balls and shape them tightly. Then, place them into the pan side-by-side. Shaping the dough in this way (similar to how I shape a shokupan) will help prevent any sagging or collapsing while the loaf is baking.
Sourdough Pain de Mie Baking Schedule
This Pullman bread is baked the same day (except for the overnight levain that you make the night before) with a room temperature proof for a mild-flavored result. However, if you’re ok with a slight increase in sourness, feel free to retard the dough overnight by proofing it, covered, in the refrigerator right after shaping.
Sourdough Pain de Mie Formula
Note that this formula has been slightly modified since I first published it in 2019. I wanted to increase the fermentation activity in the dough, so I upped the pre-fermented flour percentage from 7.25% to 8.5%. This change ensures that bulk fermentation will be completed in around 4 hours, as listed in the recipe.
Vitals
| Total Dough Weight | 1,600 grams |
| Pre-fermented Flour | 8.5% |
| Levain percentage in final dough | 19.5% |
| Hydration (water only) | 48.0% |
| Yield | Two 800g loaves |
Total Formula
Desired dough temperature: 78°F (25°C) (see my post on the importance of dough temperature).
| Weight | Ingredient | Baker’s Percentage |
|---|---|---|
| 835g | White flour (11.7% protein; King Arthur All-Purpose Flour) | 100.0% |
| 184g | Whole milk | 22.0% |
| 100g | Unsalted butter | 12.0% |
| 376g | Water 1 (levain and autolyse) | 45.0% |
| 25g | Water 2 (mix) | 3.0% |
| 58g | Honey | 7.0% |
| 15g | Fine sea salt | 1.8% |
| 7g | Ripe sourdough starter, 100% hydration | 0.9% |
Sourdough Pain de Mie Method
1. Levain – 9:00 p.m., night before baking
Mix the following ingredients in a container and leave them covered at a warm temperature, 74-76°F (23-24°C), to ripen overnight.
| Weight | Ingredient | Baker’s Percentage |
|---|---|---|
| 71g | White flour | 100.0% |
| 71g | Water 1 | 100.0% |
| 7g | Ripe sourdough starter, 100% hydration | 10.0% |
2. Autolyse (with levain) – 8:30 a.m.
| Weight | Ingredient |
|---|---|
| 764g | White flour |
| 184g | Whole milk |
| 305g | Water 1 (autolyse) |
| 149g | Ripe levain (from step 1) |
NOTE: I’ve recently updated this recipe to be like my cookbook version, which produces an even better result! One of the changes is to include this autolyse step with included levain.
I use the autolyse technique for this recipe to help reduce the total mixing time required, but I also find it helps aid in the dough’s extensibility.
Warm or cool the autolyse water so that the temperature of the mixed dough meets the final dough temperature (FDT) of 78°F (25°C) for this recipe. Place the flour, milk, water, and ripe levain in the bowl of a stand mixer fitted with the dough hook. Mix on low speed until just incorporated. Cover the bowl and let sit for 30 minutes.
Typically, I do not autolyse with levain added, but with this dough, it helps make mixing the dough easier since there’s a large portion of water in the levain.
3. Mix – 9:00 a.m.
| Weight | Ingredient |
|---|---|
| 100g | Unsalted butter |
| 25g | Water 2 (mix) |
| 58g | Honey |
| 15g | Fine sea salt |
Note: If it’s cold in your kitchen, warm the milk in the microwave or over the stove to help meet the final dough temperature of 78°F (25°C). See my post on how to bake sourdough bread in the winter for tips on encouraging strong fermentation in colder temperatures. Conversely, if it’s starting to warm in your area, use the milk cold from the fridge and see my tips for baking bread in the summer.
First, cut the butter into ½-inch pats. Set them on a plate to warm to room temperature.
Put the honey and salt on top of the dough in autolyse and pour the water over it to help dissolve. Mix the dough on low speed until the salt and water are incorporated, then increase to medium speed and mix, stopping to scrape the sides of the bowl as needed, until the dough comes together and, while still shaggy, starts to cling to the dough hook, about 6 minutes.
Turn the mixer on low speed (STIR on a KitchenAid) and mix for 2 to 4 minutes until the dough gains more strength and begins to cling once again to the dough hook. Next, with the mixer running, add the room temperature butter, one pat at a time, waiting to add each pat until the previous one is fully absorbed. Adding all the butter will take 5 to 8 minutes. In the end, the dough will still be very soft, and it won’t altogether remove from the sides of the bowl. Transfer the dough to a bulk fermentation container and cover.
4. Bulk Fermentation 9:15 a.m. to 1:15 p.m. (4 hours)
At a warm room temperature, 74-76°F (23-24°C), bulk fermentation should take about 4 hours. If your kitchen is cooler, place your bulk container in a small home dough proofer, or extend the bulk fermentation time to give the dough more time to ferment. The dough is ready when it is smooth, puffy, and well-risen.
Give this dough three strengthening sets at 30-minute intervals. The first set starts 30 minutes after the start of bulk fermentation. Give the dough a series of stretches and folds for the first set. Wet your hands, grab one side, and stretch it up and over the dough to the other side. Next, rotate the bowl 180° and perform another stretch and fold (this forms a long rectangle in the bowl). Then, rotate the bowl 90° and do another stretch and fold. Finally, turn the bowl 180° and do one last stretch and fold. The dough should be neatly folded up in the bowl.
Set a timer for 30 minutes, and perform the remaining two sets at 30-minute intervals. Then let the dough rest, covered, for the remainder of bulk fermentation.
5. Divide and Preshape – 1:15 p.m.
At the end of bulk fermentation, the dough will have risen in the bulk fermentation container (perhaps around 40% volume increase), be smooth and elastic, have bubbles on top, and a domed edge where the dough meets the bulk container. If the dough is not showing these signs, give it an additional 15 minutes and check again.
Fill a small bowl with water and place it next to your work surface. Scrape the dough onto a clean counter. Using a bench scraper in your dominant hand and the other hand wet, divide the dough in half. Then, preshape each piece of dough into a moderately tight round.
Let the dough rest, uncovered, for 30 minutes until it has relaxed and is ready to be shaped.
6. Shape – 1:45 p.m.
Grease two 9 x 4 x 4-inch Pullman pans with neutral oil.
I shaped these loaves as shown in my guide to shaping a pan loaf. Lightly flour the work surface and the top of a rested round. Using a bench knife, flip the round over onto the floured work surface. Fold the left and right sides of the dough toward the middle with a slight overlap. Then beginning at the side of the dough farthest from you, begin rolling the dough down to form a tight cylinder. Scoop the dough up with your bench knife and drop it into one of the prepared Pullman pans, seam side down. Repeat with the other piece of dough.
Cover the pans with a large, reusable plastic bag and seal.
7. Proof – 2:00 p.m. to 4:45 p.m.
Be sure to give your dough the time it needs to fully proof; your dough might need more time if your kitchen is cold
At warm room temperature, 74-76°F (23-24°C), this dough should take 2 hours and 45 minutes to 3 hours to fully proof. If your kitchen is cooler, expect it to take longer.
When fully proofed, the dough should rise almost to the rim of the Pullman pan.
8. Bake – 4:45 p.m.
As you can see above, this loaf can take one of two different forms:
- On the left, I didn’t use the lid and the dough rose naturally in the oven. I brushed the top of the dough with a simple egg wash (about 1 teaspoon of whole milk whisked with one egg) before baking. See my guide to topping bread dough for more details.
- On the right, I slid on the snug lid of the pan before baking, and no egg wash was used.
Place an oven rack in the bottom-third of the oven, and preheat the oven to 425°F (220°C).
Place the pan into the oven and bake for 15 minutes. Reduce the oven temperature to 350°F (175°C) and bake for an additional 30 to 35 minutes. If using the lid, the crusts should be a light golden brown; if baking without the lid, the top crust will be a deep golden color. The loaves should have internal temperatures of around 200°F (93°C). If the temperature is lower, slide the covers back on (or not), return the pans to the oven, and bake 5 minutes longer. Then check the internal temperature again.
Remove the pans from the oven, uncover, and let the loaves rest in the pan for 10 minutes. Then, turn the loaves out onto a wire rack and let cool completely, 1 to 2 hours.
This sourdough pain de mie will stay soft and moist for up to a week if the bread is stored properly.
Print
Pain de Mie Sandwich Bread
- Prep Time: 20 hours
- Cook Time: 45 minutes
- Total Time: 20 hours 45 minutes
- Yield: 2 loaves
- Cuisine: American, French
Description
My sourdough pain de mie sandwich bread is pure white bread in all its glory–and it’s the toast lover’s best friend. Each slice is remarkably soft and light, with the thinnest possible crust, but when toasted, the slice crisps and frizzles in an absolutely ideal fashion.
Ingredients
Levain
- 71g white flour (medium-protein white flour or all-purpose flour)
- 71g water
- 7g ripe sourdough starter, 100% hydration
Autolyse
- 764g white flour (medium-protein white flour or all-purpose flour)
- 184g whole milk
- 305g water 1
- 149g ripe levain
Main Dough
- 100g unsalted butter
- 25g water 2
- 58g honey
- 15g fine sea salt
Instructions
- Levain – 9:00 p.m. (overnight)
Mix the levain ingredients in a jar and leave them covered at a warm temperature, 74-76°F (23-24°C), to ripen overnight. - Autolyse – 8:30 a.m.
Warm or cool the autolyse water (see page 138 on how to calculate) so the temperature of the mixed dough meets the DDT for this recipe. Place the flour, milk, water, and ripe levain in the bowl of a stand mixer fitted with the dough hook. Mix on low speed until just incorporated. Cover the bowl and let sit for 30 minutes. - Mix – 9:00 a.m.
Cut the butter into ½-inch pats. Set aside. To the bowl holding the autolyse dough, add the honey, salt, and water. Mix on low speed (STIR on a KitchenAid) for 2 to 3 minutes until the ingredients come together and no dry bits remain. Next, mix on medium speed (2 to 3 on a KitchenAid) for 4 to 5 minutes until the dough smooths and begins to cling slightly to the hook. Turn the mixer on low speed (STIR on a KitchenAid) and mix for 2 to 4 minutes until the dough gains more strength and begins to cling once again to the dough hook. Next, with the mixer running, add the room temperature butter, one pat at a time, waiting to add each pat until the previous one is fully absorbed. Adding all the butter will take 5 to 8 minutes. Transfer the dough to a bulk fermentation container and cover. - Bulk fermentation – 9:15 a.m. to 1:15 p.m. (4 hours)
At a warm room temperature, 74-76°F (23-24°C), bulk fermentation should take about 4 hours. Give the dough 3 sets of stretches and folds at 30-minute intervals where the first set is 30-minutes after bulk fermentation start. - Divide and preshape – 1:15 p.m.
Scrape the dough out of the bulk fermentation container, divide it directly in half, and preshape each half into a taut round. Let rest for 30 to 35 minutes. - Shape – 1:45 p.m.
Shape one round into a tight tube, and place in the pan seam side down. Repeat with the other piece of dough. Cover the pans with a large, reusable plastic bag and seal. - Proof – 2:00 p.m. to 4:45 p.m.
At warm room temperature, 74-76°F (23-24°C), this dough should take 2 hours and 45 minutes to fully proof. If your kitchen is cooler, expect it to take longer. - Bake – 4:45 p.m.
Place an oven rack in the bottom-third of the oven, and preheat the oven to 425°F (220°C).
Place the pan into the oven and bake for 15 minutes. Reduce the oven temperature to 350°F (175°C) and bake for an additional 30 to 35 minutes. The loaves should have internal temperatures of around 204°F (95°C). Remove the pans from the oven, uncover, and let the loaves rest in the pan for 10 minutes. Then, turn the loaves out onto a wire rack and let cool completely, 1 to 2 hours.
Notes
Use the Pullman pan lid for a thinner crust.
Pain de Mie FAQ
Why do Pullman loaf pans have lids?
The lids help ensure that the resulting loaf has the thinnest possible crust.
How do you unmold a loaf made in a Pullman pan?
If you’ve sufficiently greased your pan, the loaf should simply fall right out when you turn the loaf pan over and knock on the bottom. If the bread is stuck at any point on the sides, use a thin plastic spatula (to avoid scratching the pan) to help gently release the sides of the loaf from the pan.
Do I need to grease a Pullman tin?
If your tin does not have a nonstick liner, then yes, you should grease the interior with a neutral-flavored oil. Even if it has a nonstick liner, greasing the interior will ensure that the loaf will come out easily after baking.
Can I mix this dough by hand?
Yes, but adding in the butter can be challenging. I’d follow the same mixing procedure above but knead the dough using slap and fold or folds in the bowl.
Why is my loaf rising erratically and splitting at the top when it’s baked?
This can be a sign of under-proofed dough. Make sure you give the dough sufficient time in bulk fermentation and proof. If your kitchen is cool, your dough might need more fermentation time!
Can I use white sugar instead of honey?
Yes; in fact, that’s actually more traditional than my approach. I would say start with 5% sugar in the dough and adjust up/down to your liking. Note that high percentages of sugar can impede natural fermentation, so the dough might require more time in bulk fermentation and/or proof.
Can I proof this dough overnight in the fridge?
You certainly can, just know that the result might be a bit sourer than what I intended here. Fermentation will continue in the fridge overnight, even though dramatically reduced, and will likely lead to more of that signature tang that you get with natural leavening.
Can I halve this recipe and bake only one loaf?
Yes! Halve all the ingredients in the recipe above (as described in my guide to baker’s percentages) and proceed as indicated.
How much dough goes into a large Pullman loaf pan?
To bake this sourdough Pain de Mie in the large Pullman pan (13” long), I would scale the dough up to 1200g per loaf. When shaping, divide the dough into three equal-sized balls and shape them tightly. Then, place them into the pan side-by-side. Shaping the dough in this way will help prevent any sagging or collapsing while the loaf is baking.
Why are the sides of my Pain de Mie caving in?
Sinking or caving in at the sides can be from a few things. First, try decreasing the dough’s hydration to suit your flour better. I would leave out 20g of water or milk and see the result. Second, let the dough cool in the pan for 5 to 10 minutes before removing it to give it more time to set when it’s out of the oven. Finally, several bakers have reported that the loaf needed to be baked longer to ensure it’s fully baked through and set—try baking 5 to 10 minutes more.
What’s Next?
For a real treat, use this pain de mie, sliced thick with your favorite bread knife, as a base for French toast on the weekend—you won’t regret sacrificing some toast for this treat.
For another super-soft pan loaf, check out my sourdough shokupan (Japanese milk bread) which uses the tangzhong technique to bring even more tenderness to the crust and crumb.
Buon appetito!
Last updated March 13, 2025: The starter weight was incorrectly reported as 8g when it should have been 7g.
702 Comments
Can I make this from 100% whole spelt flour?
It will be a different bread! Instead, I would try another one of my whole grain pan loaves over at my recipes page: https://www.theperfectloaf.com/recipes/
I made a loaf with the lid on and it felt very dense. Did I underproof? The bread did fill in the corners quite fully either.
Also, could I add whole grain? What could I do to make the bread rise more if I don’t use the lid.
Since it’s sourdough, could I cold proof in the fridge and bake from the fridge?
Thank you!!
Yes, sounds like it needed more fermentation! I’d give it more time in proof, sometimes this dough can run slow.
You can add whole grains, but that’ll bring more sourness (which is okay with me).
If you don’t use the lid it’ll rise more!
I’m now in my third attempt at pain de mie and continue to fail to get sufficient rise. Final proof barely rises at all. Room temp in south TX is about 78 degrees. Final dough temp was 80. Everything proceeded in accordance with your video. All suggested times were timed by timer. All ingredients were assembled mise en place so there were no omissions. Ripe starter has bee successfully used for beginners sourdough. Levain prepared the day before, held 12 hours, at 78 degrees. Was extremely active almost tripling in volume and still domed when added to mix. I use a 6qt lift bowl Kitchenaid. We love the flavor of the poorly risen bread but am getting frustrated. Hoping you can help.
What happens to the loaf? Just doesn’t rise? Even in the small Pullman can you try shaping three balls like shokupan? Are you developing sufficient gluten? It should be a fairly tight ball after a stretch and fold (you are building tight tension
Hmm, very strange. If your starter is strong, it should work just fine. Is the dough very very slack and weak, wet, or sloppy? If it’s over hydrated it will struggle to rise, too.
Which loaf is softer- this one or the tangzhong one?
Great question. I’d say this one!
Hi Maurizio, I want to thank you for being such an amazing teacher!!! My mother was a bread baker and the smell of baking bread in the always warms my heart, I find it somewhat romantic. Over the last 8 months I’ve made numerous recipes off of your website and out of your book and I have never had a failure thanks to you! I am making the Pain de Mie for the second time and was wondering if it would work to take one of the loaves during shaping, roll it out and put a mix of butter, brown sugar, and cinnamon and roll it up before I put it in my Pullman?
Would this work?
Thanks again for everything,
Lester
You’re very welcome, so happy to help. My feelings are exactly the same 🙂 Yup, you could roll this dough out and do a filling of sorts, similar to a cinnamon roll. If doing that, I would recommend chilling the dough for at least 30 minutes in the fridge before you roll it out to make it easier to handle.
Hi, Maurizio. Can you reconcile the levain duration: the website and book (p 270) states 12 hr (overnight), but the book’s “Mix the levain” paragraph (p 270) ends with “Store in a warm place for five hours.” What’s the 5 hours? Five hours added to the twelve? Thank you!
Nevermind…I found the errata online. Sorry!
Sorry about the confusion here, Charles!
Aw, geez, I think my last post got stuck in moderation 🙃 It was a long one, to be sure, but I need some help with this loaf 😹
Hello,
during final shaping, I think I worked in a little bit too much flour and this resulted in a very thin strip in the middle of the loaf that was gummy. However, during the final shaping, I felt I had to use more flour or else the dough was starting to stick on my working surface. What can I do to mitigate this? Should I slightly lower the recipe hydration, or should I perform part of the bulk fermentation uncovered so that there is a slight evaporation of moisture from the surface?
Yes, you can absolutely reduce the hydration to help.
I’m in the midst of working this recipe and I’m excited to see what the results will be, hopefully just as good as your Pain de Mie, Maurizio.
I did have a bit of trouble with the Levain, I followed the instructions/weights to the tee, but I didn’t yield 158g of ripe levain, it was less than that so I opted for using some of starters that were ready to go to make up the difference; I hope this will not affect the end results.
Needless to say, I have a feeling I’ll be making this bread on a regular. Thank you for sharing this awesome recipe and imparting with your knowledge. This will be my first time making loaf bread, yay!
Same thing happened to me with the levain. I knew it was going to be tight and ended up 7g short. My starters were fast asleep in the fridge so I just let it ride which was probably why the loaves were a little stumpy. Still tasted great, though 😺
Next time I’ll boost the levain by 10% just to be on the safe side.
Mine was 3 grams short and I added some levain from the previous day I had on hand. 🤷🏻♀️
Would love to make your recipe…at what time could I put the dough in the fridge overnight and bake next day? We like our breads more sour Thanks
Esther, I usually put this in the fridge overnight and start preheating my oven at 9 am then next day. It is beautifully sour.
Just made this recipe for the first time and the whole family loved it! Would love to make a cinnamon bread version with raisins. Do I need to adjust any of the other ingredients? Can I simply add cinnamon and raisins?
I make this regularly with cinnamon and raisin. After the first 30 minutes I do a set of stretch and fold and divide the dough into two containers bc I like one plain and one with add ins. At the second stretch and fold, I added soaked (in water) and squeezed raisins into one batch of dough and do the s & fold. I squeeze to ensure I am not adding extra hydration into the dough. The folding action does a good job incorporating the raisins. By the third set, you’ll see the raisins are nicely mixed into the dough. I add the cinnamon at the final shaping before putting it into the Pullman loaf pan, by sprinkling an even layer as I’m gathering to make the shape. No other changes to ingredients or timing were needed for me.
So glad to hear that! I also have a cinnamon raisin pan you loaf you might be interested in!
Maurizio this bread came out perfect. I’ve been trying to find a recipe that my family can all enjoy, my husband is picky. He loved it and we found our staple household bread. Thank you so much for developing this recipe! The flavors remind me slightly of the croissants, which is another excellent recipe.
My house was on the cooler side at 67 degrees, so it took much longer to ferment. I started the dough mixing the night before at around 7pm and it wasn’t ready for baking until 6pm the next day. I took your advise and kept it in the oven to keep it warmer and it definitely helped. By noon the following day it was ready for pre-shaping and final rise. Also I warmed my water and milk to slightly warmer than luke warm. I subbed sugar for the honey, 19 grams of cane sugar for a single loaf. It came out just like your pictures. Delicious toasted or not. Going to make French toast on day three.
So awesome to hear this, Anush! Glad you guys are liking the recipe. Love your modifications, too. And yes, this PdM makes amazing French toast!!
I have 3 times and they all come out so great. I thought to posted here. 1 time I have to go to church then do a birthday party and never did any stretches and fold and it works great. Other time. I didn’t let my leaving to be ripen before attempting to do the bread. The bread comes out always great. A sign of a great recipe when things happen and you still can get a good bread. Thanks.
Amazing, so glad to hear all of this, Kim!
I recently tried this recipe from your cookbook, and for both loaves (I did one with the pullman pan lid on, one with egg wash) there was a narrow ring of uncooked dough about a half inch in from the outer crush in the centre of the loaf (like if you divided the loaf in thirds, the middle third of the loaf had this ring of uncooked dough). Trying for the life of me to troubleshoot this one. Would love any insights on this! Many thanks in advance. Delicious recipe. Can’t wait to try it again.
Strange. Was it possible you worked in too much raw flour when shaping? If you use too much flour at that point it can show up in the final loaf as uncooked flour.
Hmmm that’s interesting. I will pay attention to that a bit more closely next time I make the recipe. Thank you for taking time to reply! 🙂
So for a 13×4 Pullman pan without a lid I’d scale all this down to 3/4? Original recipe makes 1600g of dough so 3/4 that for 1200g? That’s if my maths correct.
Yup, I’d do 1200–1300g of dough!
Thank you! I had already gave it a go @1200 and it didn’t rise like I had expected. I suspect the levain was the issue since I was having starter issues in the colder kitchen. I’ll give it another go. Thx Maurizio!
I noticed some differences, mostly related to quantities of ingredients, between the online recipe and the one published in your book which I have purchased. Which recipe do you recommend?
I noticed some differences, mostly related to quantities of ingredients, between the online recipe and the one published in your book which I have purchased. Which recipe do you recommend?
I’ll have to check this, they should be very close. Either one is perfectly fine!
Hi there, and thank you for all the wonderful info here! I was wondering if you (or someone!) could help me. I made starter as per your instructions, and then tried this recipe when my starter was 10 days old. My starter did just as you said it should during this time, and my levain looked and behaved like yours did in the video. I followed the instructions exactly the first time, and my loaves didn’t rise much after shaping and were flat and gummy upon baking. The next day I tried again. I used a few grams less water, as my dough the day before was very wet. I let the bulk rise go for six hours, shaped and let the loaves rise for four hours before baking, because the dough just wasn’t rising properly. The result was somewhat better, but the loaves were still very dense and pretty flat. (Final dough temp 74.1 and 74.3, kitchen temp avg 74.) I waited two weeks, feeding the starter as directed, and tried again. After eleven hours of bulk rise, the dough was about 40% bigger, so I shaped the loaves and put them in the fridge. Took them out the next morning and let them rise for nine hours before I thought they looked ready to bake. These loaves were edible, but still not like yours. I’m at a loss to figure out what is going wrong. My starter rises beautifully after feeding and seems perfectly fine, as does the levain. I made yeast bread multiple times weekly when my kids lived at home, so I’m not a novice at bread-making, but this is defeating me! I read somewhere else that you absolutely can not make bread using a starter that’s less than two weeks old, but on the last try mine was more than three weeks old. Any suggestions are very welcome! Thanks!
Correction: the final dough temps were 78.1 and 78.3, sorry.
It sounds like perhaps your dough was slightly underproofed. There are a few indicators your dough could be under: explosive rise in the oven, dense spots in the interior with potentially scattered large holes, and a gummy texture to the interior.
Make sure to build your levain from a starter that’s strong and mature (meaning it’s risen to it’s peak height before you take some to use). From there, bulk fermentation is very important! Make sure your bulk fermentation goes sufficiently far, you want the dough to look smooth, it should have risen considerably, and have bubbles here and there — it should look alive. If you tug on the dough a bit it should offer resistance to your tugging, it’ll feel stronger. Give the dough the time it needs in bulk fermentation! If you have to give it another 30m or hour to see these signs, do so. It’s important for this step to go sufficiently far for the dough to have enough fermentation activity before its proof.
Also, 74F is warm, but shoot for 76F or so, this will help ensure you have more fermentation activity. Try warming the mixing liquid a bit more to warm that dough up!
Hi,
The recipe on the Youtube channel is different than the one posted here. Which one is correct?
Youtube Version:
835g White flour (11.7% protein; King Arthur All-Purpose Flour)
184g Whole milk
100g Unsalted butter
401g Water
58g Honey
15g Fine sea salt
8g Ripe sourdough starter, 100% hydration (used to make a levain w/ 75g white flour, 75g water; as seen in the video)
Hey there! The YT version shows the dough at the time of mixing, which mine shows here as well. Check out the tables in the steps themselves, not the Total Formula!
Made two loaves of the Pan de Mie and I couldn’t be happier with the results – this is the loaf bread recipe I’ve been looking for! Three things that went differently for me compared to your video are: 1. My dough was never as “strong, 2. I never had as much bubbling, just a little bit, 3. My proofing took 4 hours and it still wasn’t as elastic. However the final results were beautiful and delicious – but if you have any thoughts on those difference I’d love to hear them – thanks!
So glad this recpied turned out well for you, Juliana! I really do feel like this is one of my best and most favorite breads I make 🙂. (And that’s why it’s also in my cookbook 🙂.)
Hello, I’m new to sourdough, this past week and have made a number of loaves.. thank you for the wonderful information. I just made this recipe and I baked 2 after proofing and pit 2 in the fridge to proof overnight along with the whole wheat honey loaves. The 2 I baked are cooling and I’m disappointed that the crust is shrinking and softening. Your loaves look very sturdy on the outside. I’d love to have tips. Btw. I followed the baking instructions of 15 min at 425 then reduce heat to 350. However, it only took 15 more minutes fir the internal temp yo be over 204 and the crust browned.
Also, with the honey wheat, the dough never came together while mixing as it was too wet/sticky, so I had to add flour. Curious about the ratios for that recipe. They are still proofing, I hope they will rise a bit more in the last half hour.
I appreciate you.
Hey there! I’d say try reducing the liquid in this recipe (and the honey wheat as well). My feeling is your flour isn’t able to take on quite as much water (which is okay, it just needs adjustment)!
Hi Maurizio, thanks for the recipe. Can I ask if your oven temperature fan forced or conventional setting? Thanks. Janis
No convection used for this one, Janis!
My dough is really soft and sticky. Could it be because I used plant based milk.?
Possible, but more likely a bit too much was added for your flour.
This looks amazing. Do I understand correctly we do not need to mix until we have a window pane in order to start bulk fermentation? Many thanks
Thanks! If you plan to give the dough no sets of stretches and folds during bulk, then you do want a windowpane. Otherwise, you can stop mixing a little short, and give it sets to finish strengthening the dough.
Thank you so much, I did the latter and worked great, just took them out of the oven, they smell and look amazing. Soo good. It’s a keeper!
🙌🏼
During the morning mix stage my dough kept sticking to the side of the bowl and travel all the way up the dough hook. I am using a smaller KitchenAid than shown in the video, The dough also never looked smooth like in the video and after fermentation it was still pretty sticky. Any suggestions or tips?
Hmm, usually if it’s climbing up during mixing it could mean the dough is strong enough and enough strengthening has occurred, however, it sounds like the dough was still sticky and slack.
When the dough climbs and sticks to the hook, that’s usually a good sign you can stop mixing and move to whatever the next step is. That’s an indicator the gluten has been developed sufficiently. If you see that, I would do just that and move on. It’s also a good sign the dough isn’t overly hydrated.
As far as the stickiness, I’m not sure! It could have been normal, or it could have been over-fermented (though this isn’t typical, but sometimes in the summer when it’s very warm…).
Thanks! It was very warm yesterday so that was likely a factor.