My sourdough pain de mie sandwich bread is pure white bread in all its glory–and it’s the toast lover’s best friend. Each slice is remarkably soft and light, with the thinnest possible crust, but when toasted, the slice crisps and frizzles in an absolutely ideal fashion. A few slices of this bread toasted within an inch of burning and served with a thick pat of butter on top might just be your new favorite breakfast. But there’s a depth of flavor to be found here, too, that sets it far apart from any supermarket white loaf: mild fermentation flavors and a touch of sweetness, all with the slightest hint of tang.
This style of bread is often called a Pullman Loaf, owing to the use of the Pullman pan, which purportedly was invented to be used in Pullman cars on a train to save space when baking. If you’re a frequent visitor here at The Perfect Loaf, you’ll know that the Pullman pan has pretty much supplanted all my other sandwich bread baking vessels. I love that bread baked in this pan has very straight sides, and that using the lid when baking results in a loaf that has an ultra-thin crust.
Sourdough Pain de Mie Video Walkthrough
Flour Selection
It’s rare for me to bake bread without any whole grain flour, but I make an exception with this recipe. In testing, I played with many flour blends, but in the end, I settled on using only all-purpose flour. By not using any whole grain flour in the dough (and the levain), you end up with bread that has reduced sourness and the lightest and most open interior possible.
Special Pans and Preparation
You can bake this bread in almost any pan that’s the right size, but I love the straight sides and nonstick liner of my USA Pan Pullman Loaf Pan (9″ x 4″ x 4″). If you slide on the cover before baking, you’ll end up with a loaf with four perfectly straight sides.
I’ve created a table of alternate pans with corresponding dough weights for each so that you can use what pan(s) you have and/or experiment with different sizes and shapes of loaves. Feel free to halve the recipe ingredients below to fit one pan, or even double the recipe and split it among 2 to 3 smaller pans.
| Pan (Dimensions in inches) | Total Dough Weight |
| 9 x 4 x 4 (Pullman pan shown in this post) | 800-900g |
| 8.5 x 4.5 x 2.5 (small loaf pan) | 600-700g |
| 9 x 5 x 2.75 (medium loaf pan) | 700-800g |
| 13 x 4 x 4 (large Pullman pan) | 1,100-1,200g |
Regardless of the pan you use, be sure to liberally grease the inside of the pan to ensure that the bread will come out cleanly after baking. Additionally, check out my post on shaping a pan loaf for tips on shaping, pans, and more.
Note: If using a large 13-inch Pullman pan, during shaping divide the dough into three equal-sized balls and shape them tightly. Then, place them into the pan side-by-side. Shaping the dough in this way (similar to how I shape a shokupan) will help prevent any sagging or collapsing while the loaf is baking.
Sourdough Pain de Mie Baking Schedule
This Pullman bread is baked the same day (except for the overnight levain that you make the night before) with a room temperature proof for a mild-flavored result. However, if you’re ok with a slight increase in sourness, feel free to retard the dough overnight by proofing it, covered, in the refrigerator right after shaping.
Sourdough Pain de Mie Formula
Note that this formula has been slightly modified since I first published it in 2019. I wanted to increase the fermentation activity in the dough, so I upped the pre-fermented flour percentage from 7.25% to 8.5%. This change ensures that bulk fermentation will be completed in around 4 hours, as listed in the recipe.
Vitals
| Total Dough Weight | 1,600 grams |
| Pre-fermented Flour | 8.5% |
| Levain percentage in final dough | 19.5% |
| Hydration (water only) | 48.0% |
| Yield | Two 800g loaves |
Total Formula
Desired dough temperature: 78°F (25°C) (see my post on the importance of dough temperature).
| Weight | Ingredient | Baker’s Percentage |
|---|---|---|
| 835g | White flour (11.7% protein; King Arthur All-Purpose Flour) | 100.0% |
| 184g | Whole milk | 22.0% |
| 100g | Unsalted butter | 12.0% |
| 376g | Water 1 (levain and autolyse) | 45.0% |
| 25g | Water 2 (mix) | 3.0% |
| 58g | Honey | 7.0% |
| 15g | Fine sea salt | 1.8% |
| 7g | Ripe sourdough starter, 100% hydration | 0.9% |
Sourdough Pain de Mie Method
1. Levain – 9:00 p.m., night before baking
Mix the following ingredients in a container and leave them covered at a warm temperature, 74-76°F (23-24°C), to ripen overnight.
| Weight | Ingredient | Baker’s Percentage |
|---|---|---|
| 71g | White flour | 100.0% |
| 71g | Water 1 | 100.0% |
| 7g | Ripe sourdough starter, 100% hydration | 10.0% |
2. Autolyse (with levain) – 8:30 a.m.
| Weight | Ingredient |
|---|---|
| 764g | White flour |
| 184g | Whole milk |
| 305g | Water 1 (autolyse) |
| 149g | Ripe levain (from step 1) |
NOTE: I’ve recently updated this recipe to be like my cookbook version, which produces an even better result! One of the changes is to include this autolyse step with included levain.
I use the autolyse technique for this recipe to help reduce the total mixing time required, but I also find it helps aid in the dough’s extensibility.
Warm or cool the autolyse water so that the temperature of the mixed dough meets the final dough temperature (FDT) of 78°F (25°C) for this recipe. Place the flour, milk, water, and ripe levain in the bowl of a stand mixer fitted with the dough hook. Mix on low speed until just incorporated. Cover the bowl and let sit for 30 minutes.
Typically, I do not autolyse with levain added, but with this dough, it helps make mixing the dough easier since there’s a large portion of water in the levain.
3. Mix – 9:00 a.m.
| Weight | Ingredient |
|---|---|
| 100g | Unsalted butter |
| 25g | Water 2 (mix) |
| 58g | Honey |
| 15g | Fine sea salt |
Note: If it’s cold in your kitchen, warm the milk in the microwave or over the stove to help meet the final dough temperature of 78°F (25°C). See my post on how to bake sourdough bread in the winter for tips on encouraging strong fermentation in colder temperatures. Conversely, if it’s starting to warm in your area, use the milk cold from the fridge and see my tips for baking bread in the summer.
First, cut the butter into ½-inch pats. Set them on a plate to warm to room temperature.
Put the honey and salt on top of the dough in autolyse and pour the water over it to help dissolve. Mix the dough on low speed until the salt and water are incorporated, then increase to medium speed and mix, stopping to scrape the sides of the bowl as needed, until the dough comes together and, while still shaggy, starts to cling to the dough hook, about 6 minutes.
Turn the mixer on low speed (STIR on a KitchenAid) and mix for 2 to 4 minutes until the dough gains more strength and begins to cling once again to the dough hook. Next, with the mixer running, add the room temperature butter, one pat at a time, waiting to add each pat until the previous one is fully absorbed. Adding all the butter will take 5 to 8 minutes. In the end, the dough will still be very soft, and it won’t altogether remove from the sides of the bowl. Transfer the dough to a bulk fermentation container and cover.
4. Bulk Fermentation 9:15 a.m. to 1:15 p.m. (4 hours)
At a warm room temperature, 74-76°F (23-24°C), bulk fermentation should take about 4 hours. If your kitchen is cooler, place your bulk container in a small home dough proofer, or extend the bulk fermentation time to give the dough more time to ferment. The dough is ready when it is smooth, puffy, and well-risen.
Give this dough three strengthening sets at 30-minute intervals. The first set starts 30 minutes after the start of bulk fermentation. Give the dough a series of stretches and folds for the first set. Wet your hands, grab one side, and stretch it up and over the dough to the other side. Next, rotate the bowl 180° and perform another stretch and fold (this forms a long rectangle in the bowl). Then, rotate the bowl 90° and do another stretch and fold. Finally, turn the bowl 180° and do one last stretch and fold. The dough should be neatly folded up in the bowl.
Set a timer for 30 minutes, and perform the remaining two sets at 30-minute intervals. Then let the dough rest, covered, for the remainder of bulk fermentation.
5. Divide and Preshape – 1:15 p.m.
At the end of bulk fermentation, the dough will have risen in the bulk fermentation container (perhaps around 40% volume increase), be smooth and elastic, have bubbles on top, and a domed edge where the dough meets the bulk container. If the dough is not showing these signs, give it an additional 15 minutes and check again.
Fill a small bowl with water and place it next to your work surface. Scrape the dough onto a clean counter. Using a bench scraper in your dominant hand and the other hand wet, divide the dough in half. Then, preshape each piece of dough into a moderately tight round.
Let the dough rest, uncovered, for 30 minutes until it has relaxed and is ready to be shaped.
6. Shape – 1:45 p.m.
Grease two 9 x 4 x 4-inch Pullman pans with neutral oil.
I shaped these loaves as shown in my guide to shaping a pan loaf. Lightly flour the work surface and the top of a rested round. Using a bench knife, flip the round over onto the floured work surface. Fold the left and right sides of the dough toward the middle with a slight overlap. Then beginning at the side of the dough farthest from you, begin rolling the dough down to form a tight cylinder. Scoop the dough up with your bench knife and drop it into one of the prepared Pullman pans, seam side down. Repeat with the other piece of dough.
Cover the pans with a large, reusable plastic bag and seal.
7. Proof – 2:00 p.m. to 4:45 p.m.
Be sure to give your dough the time it needs to fully proof; your dough might need more time if your kitchen is cold
At warm room temperature, 74-76°F (23-24°C), this dough should take 2 hours and 45 minutes to 3 hours to fully proof. If your kitchen is cooler, expect it to take longer.
When fully proofed, the dough should rise almost to the rim of the Pullman pan.
8. Bake – 4:45 p.m.
As you can see above, this loaf can take one of two different forms:
- On the left, I didn’t use the lid and the dough rose naturally in the oven. I brushed the top of the dough with a simple egg wash (about 1 teaspoon of whole milk whisked with one egg) before baking. See my guide to topping bread dough for more details.
- On the right, I slid on the snug lid of the pan before baking, and no egg wash was used.
Place an oven rack in the bottom-third of the oven, and preheat the oven to 425°F (220°C).
Place the pan into the oven and bake for 15 minutes. Reduce the oven temperature to 350°F (175°C) and bake for an additional 30 to 35 minutes. If using the lid, the crusts should be a light golden brown; if baking without the lid, the top crust will be a deep golden color. The loaves should have internal temperatures of around 200°F (93°C). If the temperature is lower, slide the covers back on (or not), return the pans to the oven, and bake 5 minutes longer. Then check the internal temperature again.
Remove the pans from the oven, uncover, and let the loaves rest in the pan for 10 minutes. Then, turn the loaves out onto a wire rack and let cool completely, 1 to 2 hours.
This sourdough pain de mie will stay soft and moist for up to a week if the bread is stored properly.
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Pain de Mie Sandwich Bread
- Prep Time: 20 hours
- Cook Time: 45 minutes
- Total Time: 20 hours 45 minutes
- Yield: 2 loaves
- Cuisine: American, French
Description
My sourdough pain de mie sandwich bread is pure white bread in all its glory–and it’s the toast lover’s best friend. Each slice is remarkably soft and light, with the thinnest possible crust, but when toasted, the slice crisps and frizzles in an absolutely ideal fashion.
Ingredients
Levain
- 71g white flour (medium-protein white flour or all-purpose flour)
- 71g water
- 7g ripe sourdough starter, 100% hydration
Autolyse
- 764g white flour (medium-protein white flour or all-purpose flour)
- 184g whole milk
- 305g water 1
- 149g ripe levain
Main Dough
- 100g unsalted butter
- 25g water 2
- 58g honey
- 15g fine sea salt
Instructions
- Levain – 9:00 p.m. (overnight)
Mix the levain ingredients in a jar and leave them covered at a warm temperature, 74-76°F (23-24°C), to ripen overnight. - Autolyse – 8:30 a.m.
Warm or cool the autolyse water (see page 138 on how to calculate) so the temperature of the mixed dough meets the DDT for this recipe. Place the flour, milk, water, and ripe levain in the bowl of a stand mixer fitted with the dough hook. Mix on low speed until just incorporated. Cover the bowl and let sit for 30 minutes. - Mix – 9:00 a.m.
Cut the butter into ½-inch pats. Set aside. To the bowl holding the autolyse dough, add the honey, salt, and water. Mix on low speed (STIR on a KitchenAid) for 2 to 3 minutes until the ingredients come together and no dry bits remain. Next, mix on medium speed (2 to 3 on a KitchenAid) for 4 to 5 minutes until the dough smooths and begins to cling slightly to the hook. Turn the mixer on low speed (STIR on a KitchenAid) and mix for 2 to 4 minutes until the dough gains more strength and begins to cling once again to the dough hook. Next, with the mixer running, add the room temperature butter, one pat at a time, waiting to add each pat until the previous one is fully absorbed. Adding all the butter will take 5 to 8 minutes. Transfer the dough to a bulk fermentation container and cover. - Bulk fermentation – 9:15 a.m. to 1:15 p.m. (4 hours)
At a warm room temperature, 74-76°F (23-24°C), bulk fermentation should take about 4 hours. Give the dough 3 sets of stretches and folds at 30-minute intervals where the first set is 30-minutes after bulk fermentation start. - Divide and preshape – 1:15 p.m.
Scrape the dough out of the bulk fermentation container, divide it directly in half, and preshape each half into a taut round. Let rest for 30 to 35 minutes. - Shape – 1:45 p.m.
Shape one round into a tight tube, and place in the pan seam side down. Repeat with the other piece of dough. Cover the pans with a large, reusable plastic bag and seal. - Proof – 2:00 p.m. to 4:45 p.m.
At warm room temperature, 74-76°F (23-24°C), this dough should take 2 hours and 45 minutes to fully proof. If your kitchen is cooler, expect it to take longer. - Bake – 4:45 p.m.
Place an oven rack in the bottom-third of the oven, and preheat the oven to 425°F (220°C).
Place the pan into the oven and bake for 15 minutes. Reduce the oven temperature to 350°F (175°C) and bake for an additional 30 to 35 minutes. The loaves should have internal temperatures of around 204°F (95°C). Remove the pans from the oven, uncover, and let the loaves rest in the pan for 10 minutes. Then, turn the loaves out onto a wire rack and let cool completely, 1 to 2 hours.
Notes
Use the Pullman pan lid for a thinner crust.
Pain de Mie FAQ
Why do Pullman loaf pans have lids?
The lids help ensure that the resulting loaf has the thinnest possible crust.
How do you unmold a loaf made in a Pullman pan?
If you’ve sufficiently greased your pan, the loaf should simply fall right out when you turn the loaf pan over and knock on the bottom. If the bread is stuck at any point on the sides, use a thin plastic spatula (to avoid scratching the pan) to help gently release the sides of the loaf from the pan.
Do I need to grease a Pullman tin?
If your tin does not have a nonstick liner, then yes, you should grease the interior with a neutral-flavored oil. Even if it has a nonstick liner, greasing the interior will ensure that the loaf will come out easily after baking.
Can I mix this dough by hand?
Yes, but adding in the butter can be challenging. I’d follow the same mixing procedure above but knead the dough using slap and fold or folds in the bowl.
Why is my loaf rising erratically and splitting at the top when it’s baked?
This can be a sign of under-proofed dough. Make sure you give the dough sufficient time in bulk fermentation and proof. If your kitchen is cool, your dough might need more fermentation time!
Can I use white sugar instead of honey?
Yes; in fact, that’s actually more traditional than my approach. I would say start with 5% sugar in the dough and adjust up/down to your liking. Note that high percentages of sugar can impede natural fermentation, so the dough might require more time in bulk fermentation and/or proof.
Can I proof this dough overnight in the fridge?
You certainly can, just know that the result might be a bit sourer than what I intended here. Fermentation will continue in the fridge overnight, even though dramatically reduced, and will likely lead to more of that signature tang that you get with natural leavening.
Can I halve this recipe and bake only one loaf?
Yes! Halve all the ingredients in the recipe above (as described in my guide to baker’s percentages) and proceed as indicated.
How much dough goes into a large Pullman loaf pan?
To bake this sourdough Pain de Mie in the large Pullman pan (13” long), I would scale the dough up to 1200g per loaf. When shaping, divide the dough into three equal-sized balls and shape them tightly. Then, place them into the pan side-by-side. Shaping the dough in this way will help prevent any sagging or collapsing while the loaf is baking.
Why are the sides of my Pain de Mie caving in?
Sinking or caving in at the sides can be from a few things. First, try decreasing the dough’s hydration to suit your flour better. I would leave out 20g of water or milk and see the result. Second, let the dough cool in the pan for 5 to 10 minutes before removing it to give it more time to set when it’s out of the oven. Finally, several bakers have reported that the loaf needed to be baked longer to ensure it’s fully baked through and set—try baking 5 to 10 minutes more.
What’s Next?
For a real treat, use this pain de mie, sliced thick with your favorite bread knife, as a base for French toast on the weekend—you won’t regret sacrificing some toast for this treat.
For another super-soft pan loaf, check out my sourdough shokupan (Japanese milk bread) which uses the tangzhong technique to bring even more tenderness to the crust and crumb.
Buon appetito!
Last updated March 13, 2025: The starter weight was incorrectly reported as 8g when it should have been 7g.
702 Comments
I’m making this for the first time. I’m not a very accomplished sourdough baker but I do make Cindys SDSD every week for about a year now and it always turns out well…so, now for my problem with this. I’m at the point where I’ve done 4 s&fs and the dough is still very wet. Should I do more s&fs? I weighed all my ingredients according to the recipe and made no changes. The dough was so wet when I got it all mixed that I added 2-3 Tbsp of AP flour…it was still very wet . It is a bit firmer after the S&Fs but too wet to handle comfortably. Can I do anything or should I just assume I’m going to pour it into the pans when ready. I cannot imagine shaping this blob.
PS…I left it to bulk ferment an extra half hour, at that time it had doubled so I divided it and did the preshape…I was VERY liberal with the flour on the worktop and on the dough…I was so surprised that I could shape it…and it has baked and is cooling…it looks SO good…I’ll let you know about the taste after it cools.
Final note: It turned out really good…the interior is so soft…I had an egg and cheese sandwich, toasted, this morning, delicious. I’m still partial to part whole wheat though. Have you tried using some whole wheat in this recipe? I typically bake 10% rye, 30% whole wheat, 60% white.
If the dough is still super wet and slack, yes give it more folds. Generally: the number of sets of stretch and folds really depends on the dough at hand. Sometimes you’ll mix a little less and need more, sometimes the dough will be strong enough and you won’t need as many sets. It all depends 🙂
I’m so glad to hear it worked out well! Yes, I’ve tried using whole grains in this, and while it’s certainly tasty, it brings more sourness to the end result, which is what I was aiming to avoid. You can certainly experiment and see how it goes for you — it’s still an amazing loaf!
in reading some of the comments where people are having trouble, it reminds me of an episode in the 1st year of the modernist breadcrumbs podcast where they were talking about osmotolerant yeast and starters. perhaps some starters have developed some osmotolerance and can handle the higher sugar content while others cant. this week, in preparation to making this recipe, i took some of my starter and started a second starter, feeding it sugar in addition to the usual flour and water. starting at 2% sugar and working my way up to 10%, hopefully conditioning the starter better handle enriched doughs. has anyone else experimented with this? searching this brings up a few forums on the fresh loaf site.
Hey, Daniel! Yes, this is exactly the issue. I know of a few bakers who have had success in keeping a “sweet starter” and use this approach when making lots of enriched doughs. They say they have reduced rise times and stronger fermentation. I’ve been playing with this from time to time but haven’t nailed it just yet, but it’s something I’m looking into for the future. I plan to make a series of builds using sugar in increasing quantities instead of keeping a starter in this way, maintaining two starters is a lot of work! If you’ve been playing with this, I’d love to hear how it works out for you.
i made an enriched hokkaido dough a few weeks ago with a sweet starter terrific success. the 2 other times i tried sd brioche or challah, it wasn’t great. this time i did as outlined above ramped up sugar over 3 or 4 days on up to 15%. i made a batch of sweet flour for feedings at 15% sugar to flour so just had to scoop one ingredient for all subsequent feedings. i keep my starter in the fridge so just bring it out every 2 weeks for a few days of feeding whether i’m using it or not, so maintaining 2 isnt much of a burden. maybe next time i’ll do a side by side of same dough with the 2 diff starters. or maybe not 🤷♂️
Right on. I’ll definitely have to give this a try. Sounds like you have it setup for low maintenance which is the way to go! I know when I was working on panettone (the ultimate naturally leavened enriched dough) you really only use sugar for the dough mix — but there’s a lot more involved there… I’m still going to experiment!
say… i was interested in that science of sd class with debra wink last month but coronavirus was starting to make the world weird and had been planning to go to pizza expo and didn’t want another trip so didn’t. also had wanted to attend the class in new orleans at bellegarde and was sick so didn’t go. did science of sad class happen or get rescheduled? any other classes in coming months? guessing not much is being scheduled these days 🙁
Yea, unfortunately our class was cancelled — and a lot of other things, of course! I don’t have any other classes scheduled for this year, but we might offer that class again next year… I hope so!
Hi Maurizio! I make a batch of this every other week for my son’s sandwiches for lunch. It is his fav (well, next to your fococcia recipe). I make the 50/50 whole wheat on the off weeks for my morning toast. I’ve tried other people’s recipes but never get the results I do from your recipes. Thanks so much for helping me learn how to bake with sourdough!
So awesome to hear that! Thanks for the feedback, I really do appreciate it. Happy baking, Anne!
I made this today and so desperately wanted results but I managed to screw it up haha. I gave 4 hours of bulk ferment and 3 hours of proofing in a 65 degree house. I built a levain from my active starter last night. Any suggestions? I prefer to bake my breads in the first half of the day – thinking maybe I should bulk ferment overnight and then proof in my oven (turned off, with the light on becomes about 85 degrees for me). Any thoughts would be great! Thanks.
Hey, Nicholas! My guess is the dough was likely under proofed given those times and temperatures. If you’re going to keep the dough at 65F for bulk, you’ll definitely have to do it overnight. Try for 6-8 hours overnight and see how the dough looks and feels in the morning, then shape it and place it into the pans and proof in the turned-off oven at 80F or so until ready to bake. That should work well!
I’m so sad!! This is my second attempt at a AP loaf. I BF for 5 hours and then put it in the tin. It’s been 2 hours and it doesn’t look any different. 😭 I don’t think it likes my starter…
Did you use your starter when it was fully ripe/mature to mix the dough? It’s very important to get the dough started with a fully mature starter so it’s at full strength. This is a slow moving dough regardless. Make sure to keep the dough warm and to hit the final dough temperature I list in the recipe — important!
It has nothing to do with your particular starter, just be sure it’s mature when you use it and it’s fermenting well!
I tested the starter this morning and it did not float. I
believe a few things could have caused this fail.
1. I didn’t let the dough BF long enough 2. I didn’t use the Levain at the peak time
3. The starter I used didn’t like the AP flour.
My starter is a whole wheat 100% hydration and is about 2 months old. I’m new to sourdough.
I will try again tomorrow. Any tips with feeding the starter and making the Levain?
Best, Donna
The float test is not a definitive test, so even if it didn’t float it still might be ok to use. Use it when you’d normally give it a feeding, it should smell slightly sour, have bubbles throughout, and if it normally falls in the jar, right after it has fallen.
The important thing is to use the starter when it’s mature to make your levain, and then to use the levain when it’s mature to mix into your dough. If you use the levain a tad early, it just means bulk fermentation will take longer (but it’ll be fine, it just needs more time).
Hello, Maurizio
I’m doing my Saturday bread making and I’m making your pain de mie. This is my first bread loaf. Is there a difference between the height of the rise during bulk and the final rise? How do you know when the bread is ready after bulk since there is such a varied time frame? Also, I’m using a Brod & Taylor proofed. What should the temp be set on? I really appreciate your expertise and advice! Best, Donna
Yes, you’ll certainly see more rise by the end of the final rise when the dough is in the pan. End bulk once you see the dough risen by at least 20-30%: it should be light and airy, smooth, and feel stronger. If you use a wet hand and tug on a bit of the dough, you’ll feel the strength and elasticity. It can be hard to end bulk at the perfect time, but that’s ok, if you look for the signs I describe here (and use the photos in the post, above) you will certainly get close, then finish the proof in the pans (also in the proofer) until their at the right height in the pan.
I would set B&T proofer to 80°F for this recipe — that will keep it nice and warm and encourage a faster rise.
This is a very forgiving recipe just be sure to give the dough the time it needs. It likes it warm! Let me know how it goes, happy baking Donna!
Thank you so much for your quick response. This helps tremendously! In show of appreciation, I have made a small donation for your guidance and support. Learning and Baking is good for the soul!
Best, Donna
Donna — not required but so, so appreciated. Thank you very much and have fun!
Dear Sir, how much percentage (gram) of starter/levain against the total flour should be ideally for great result ? 20% ? 30% ? and hydration of the starter affecting the end result ?
There’s no easy answer to that as it depends on so many factors in a recipe: flour, hydration, desired schedule, etc.
Dear Sir, I have tried using commercial yeast to bake Pain De Mie and the final result was perfect. But I have tried using sourdough method (to replace commercial yeast) and most of the time the outcome is the bread is half way rise and not up to the pan level. Meaning the bread is not rectangular shape on top following the pullman tray. May I know that sourdough bread WILL NOT and NEVER rise high or level/match with using Commercial yeast ? Thank you.
This recipe needs more time because of the enrichments in the dough stressing the natural yeast and bacteria. It’s certainly possible to make a pain de mie 100% naturally leavened, this post (and my many, many bakes) are proof 🙂 Give it another try, just keep the dough nice and warm — 80F — and give it plenty of time!
Hi! Thank you for a fantastic recipe! It was my first time making pain de mie and actually any pan loaf. I was really nervous because I failed several times with your other recipes and now I finally understood that it’s not me who sucks but that my flour can’t take hydration over 70% (eventhough I order from a mill but well). This bread is great, my husband loves it. If it helps somebody: I had 27cm long loaf, it went great with this recipe. I did not have a mixer, just did slap and folds and other random stuff till it felt good. I made additional S&F an hour after the 3rd one and the total bulk time for me (as many mentioned) was closer to 6 hours. The final proof was like 3.5 hours. I baked with egg brush and with oven fan at 215C and it got really dark after 10 mins so I had to move it to the bottom rack and eventually actually covered it with foil. Next time I’ll have lower temperature. Did you bake this with or without fan setting? Did you try freezing this after baking, how does it hold up? Hope my comment helps somebody 🙂 Thank you again, your blog is fantastic!!
Thanks for the feedback, Anna! Yes, sounds like lowering the hydration is the way to go with your flour. Frustrating, I know — sorry about that! Just about every flour does need some hydration adjustment, but it can be hard to tell sometimes. I didn’t use the fan setting for this bread.
I have frozen this loaf and it freezes very well! Wrap it several times with plastic wrap and then place it in a freezer bag. Thaw with the entire loaf in the fridge, then take out and keep on the counter.
Thanks again for all the updates and tips, I know others will benefit!
Happy baking.
Hi Maurizio. Love this recipe but the last few times I made there was a giant gap just under the crust. One of the pair had the gap the entire length of the loaf. Do you think this a shaping problem or a dough development issue.
Hey, Anthony! It’s like a proofing issue, but it could also be shaping. I’d first look to ensure the dough is proofed just right: if you see dense areas in the dough with lots of rise in the oven, it’s likely under proofed. Give the dough more time in bulk and/or proof. Conversely, if you see lots and lots of small holes consistently throughout and there was little rise in the oven, it might have over proofed (not typical with this recipe, though).
I’d first look to the proof and try to diagnose the issue there!
That really helps. Thanks so much!!
thank you for sharing, i really want to try it but i have the medium pan, should i reduce the amounts to 90%? my pan is iron (very heavy and thick) should it matter to the degrees of baking? and last question, i really really love rye bread (i usually bake my sourdough with rye / white flour 50-50 and caraway), can i do it with this recipe? i mean change half of the flour amount to rye, will i have to recalculate the hydration?
by the way i’ve developed a nice way to proof the dough. i either put a bowl with water in the microwave for a 1:30 min and then put the bowl of dough in it (surely not operating the microwave with the dough inside), or put a damped towel the same for 1:30 min and cover with it the bowl inside the microwave- again just leaving it there without operating the microwave, the humidity and warmth works wonder on proofing the dough .
This is a fantastic approach!
Hard to say on the pan, it really depends on the dimensions compared to the one I used here. I’d say yes, start with a smaller dough weight just in case, then work it up if it looks like the dough will fit. I usually have a ballpark weight I target for each of my pans but in the end I have to test to see what works best.
Regarding the rye, no I don’t think it would work in the way you might be intending. Adding that much rye would transform this bread in a much more dense, earthy, and flavor-forward loaf. You’d lose the light texture and rich/sweet flavor. If you’re looking for a rye option, check out my mostly-rye sourdough recipe.
I hope that helps!
thanks for answering so quickly! in the meanwhile i’ve done your recipe, it’s already 6.5 hours and hasn’t risen at all 🙁 (i used my sourdough and not levain, which is mostly made from rye flour ) maybe i’ll leave it out until tomorrow… i’ll look in your rye recipe, thanks again!
As a vegan I would avoid using honey, so it’s useful to know that sugar will work in this recipe. I’m wondering about the butter and milk though. Would plant milk (soya, hemp or oat milk) work OK instead of dairy milk? As a substitute for butter would vegan sunflower spread be OK? I use this instead of butter when baking cakes, but unsure about using it in bread. The only other vegan alternative to butter would be Trex (Crisco) , although on the pack it advises to use 20% less than the amount of butter required in recipes, so would that be a better option instead of sunflower spread?
I’ve often thought about trying oat milk (full fat) with a recipe like this, my feeling is it would likely work pretty well. Af far as vegan butter substitutes, I really have no experience in using them so I couldn’t say. The butter is bringing a measure of richness (warmth) to this dough, so if those spreads act similarly then it should work well. In fact, any fat could potentially work with a little testing.
Dear Maurizio, to cut down all the waiting for long proofing (bulk and final proof), can I do this this method – knead the dough till pass windowpane test. Shape the dough and go for ONE RISE PROOFING in pullman tray, till reaching 1/2 inch below the top tray. And directly close the tray lid and all the way to bake . Any difference in term of bread quality – crumb/texture ?
Thank you.
That could certainly work. Just be sure the dough is shaped tightly enough when you place it in the pan and that it’s fully proofed. Know that since you’re combining both bulk and proof, you’ll have to go longer until the dough rises appropriately and has sufficient strength (the “poke test” should work pretty well here). Let me know how it goes, I’ve not tried this!
Dear Maurizio, to cut down all the waiting for long proofing (bulk and final proof), can I do this this method – knead the dough till pass windowpane test. Shape the dough and go for ONE RISE PROOFING in pullman tray, till reaching 1/2 inch below the top tray. And directly close the tray lid and all the way to bake . Any difference in term of bread quality – crumb/texture ?
Thank you.
Hey Maurizio, made this for the second time. This time I used 20% sifted einkorn. I kept everything else the same. Outcome was perfect again. And, with the einkorn a delicate yellow color to the crumb and a hint of einkorn flavor. Texture is still consistent with pain de mie and the butter flavor remains prominent.
This is a reliable winner!
Right on, glad to hear that! Einkorn is the perfect grain for this bread, in fact, I have an “einkorn pain de mie” recipe on my to-bake list 🙂 Thanks for that update, Wouter!
yes it is perfect. Will try a bit higher percent next time, maybe with a bit less hydration depending on how high i go.
Question on baking following day. Can I do the bulk rise and then a cold bulk overnight, followed by a warm proof? Or will it kill the flavor profile?
You can certainly do this, but it might make it a little more sour (many factors to consider, there!). My suggestion is to try it and see how you like it, you might be surprised (in a good way).
I’ll let you know tomorrow 😊
whats lid?
Dear Maurizio , i m not sure if i understood whats the difference between my sourdough starter .. of course refreshed and the sourdough start you propose above.. 6 grams starter and 62 flour 62 water.. its 1-10-10 isnt? why this proporcion?
I like to build a specific levain for this bread to achieve the mild flavor I’m after, that’s why it’s built with a small amount of mature starter (inoculation) and made with white flour. However, it’s also nice to sometimes just mix up this bread with a part of your starter, no matter the state, knowing the flavor might be a little different or more sour — but delicious nonetheless!
thank you Maurizio sometimes my english fail and after i read again i got your explanations about building a specific levain.. i will do the same thanks a lot for your patience and care with us. One question do you know Trevor Open Crumb? A big hug for you friend
Not a problem. Yes, I’ve chatted with Trevor here and there online, he is a wonderful baker! I also have the second edition of his book, it’s fantastic.
Nice Maurizio most of breads i make there are your instagran name and also Trevor, i m also reading his book online and learning more. Thank you for share all informations with us.. i ve been doing your way to refresh levain.. and also i want to tell you that .. sometimes when i lost the top time of the levain a friend of mine touch we just add 20-30 gramas of flour and little bit of water and its grow again
You’re very welcome! Yes, topping it off with a little more flour will certainly give it more runway. Have fun!
My oven has a steam option. Should I use it for this loaf?
If you don’t do an egg wash and would like to steam it you certainly could. However, if you do an egg wash (or use the cover to the pan), steam is not necessary!
I’ve prepared this recipe twice now. The issue I’m facing is that I’m trying to bake around an 8-5 job. I’ve been preparing my levain in the morning on day 1, mixing that evening and then BF overnight. First time I did BF at around 50° overnight and it was way underproofed, but I went ahead with proofing and baking, and the loaf barely rose(as expected). The second time I did BF overnight at room temperature (around 76°) and after I shaped the dough, it had larger bubbles on the top which made me think it was overproofed this time. Do you have any advice for a schedule of baking this recipe around my work schedule?
Because both overnight and during the work day will likely be around 8 hours, if you kept the dough at 76°F with the formula above it’d likely over proof (as you experienced). What you could try to do is shoot for a lower final dough temperature, perhaps around 72°F, and see if you can stretch bulk through the workday. To achieve this you’ll have to cool the water used in the mix in addition to using cold milk straight from the fridge. In the evening when you get home, shape the dough and proof it at warm room temp until ready to bake that night.
This will definitely take some trial and error, but it can work. If the dough is super sluggish after work give it more time in bulk as necessary when you get home, then proof later in the evening and bake it perhaps before bed.
I hope that helps and let me know how it goes!
Great question. Lid goes on right before baking just so I can keep an eye on the dough during proof. This dough should not rise up over the edge of the pan, if it does, then you’ll have issues sliding on the lid.
Hi Mauricio…I made the pain de mie….came out fabulous…everyone wants a loaf.
Is this recipe for two 9X4 Pullman’s?
I used one pan.
I made an error….after bulk I placed the pans in the oven and baked…..I missed the final proof !!!
How did the bread turn out so well?
I wish I could send you. Pics?
What would have been the difference if I had proofed ?
Btw I love love your site..
Thank you
So glad to hear that! Yes, it’s for two 9×4 Pullman pan loaves. The dough definitely needs a full and complete final proof to ensure the dough is sufficiently fermented. If you skip the proof and your dough hasn’t developed enough, you’d definitely end up with underfermented areas in the dough (usually they’re tight, gummy spots) and might have extreme rise in the oven, depending on how far you pushed bulk fermentation. Try giving the dough at least 1 hour in final proof on the counter before baking!
Hi Maurizio! This recipe looks really great and I’d love to try it soon. However, I only have one 9x4x4 loaf pan. Any suggestions on how to modify this recipe to make a single loaf? Thanks! Kaitlyn
Hey, Kaitlyn! You can just split everything in the formulas above in half and that’ll work well!
Mauricio I am very happy with this recipe. It smells like old bakeries from my childhood. The bread turned out perfectly making me a white bread guy again. Only thing is that the bulk rise took about 2 hours longer and the final proof about an extra hour. Not sure why in my 80 degree desert kitchen but no worries.
The recipe though detailed went smoothly. Only thing where my experience came in handy was was identifying gluten development after mixing and then again at the bulk knowing when it was ready to divide.
Next week I teach local chef how to make this treasure of a perfect loaf. I’ll post pics on IG and tag you tomorrow
I’m happy to hear that, Vic! I saw your post on IG and left a comment — it looked great! Nice job adjusting the timeline as needed for your dough, it does move a bit slow due to the additions. Enjoy!
Hi Maurizio – I finally got around to making this and it is now going to be our standard sandwich bread. I also love the whole wheat pan bread on my regular rotation, but this is just so delicious, the first loaf didn’t even make it 24 hours. Usually, I need to tweak things slightly, but this came out like a dream! Soft, high, flavorful, just a touch of crust. A very mild tang from the starter. Even my crust-averse 9-year old ate all of it. I live in AZ, so the kitchen is warm no matter what I do. My rise was pretty short and it’s easy to keep it at optimum dough temp. I used the discard from my starter that sat on the counter for about two hours before I was ready to use it. I used an 11.5% protein flour (Great Organic River Lily White) and it seems to work for almost all of my breads (except bagels). I’ve been making a similar loaf with commercial yeast, but this is so much better. Plus, the shelf life of that loaf was short. Not that this needs a shelf life……I think the second loaf will be gone soon as well. Thank you so much for this one!
So happy to hear that, Tracey! The same thing happens here, it barely lasts a day or two before it’s eaten in total. That can’t be argued with! Thanks for that update and enjoy 🙂