High-protein white bread flour is one of the many classes of flour that can be used for baking sourdough bread. But it’s not quite as straightforward to work with as others in the baking aisle: Strangely, what exactly makes flour “high-protein” is ambiguous. Further, in my experience, using too much of this flour (or using it incorrectly) can lead to bread with a tough, gummy texture; and potentially a dense or wildly open crumb structure—none of which we want in a loaf.
I do not intend this guide to be a statement about how high-protein flour is bad and should never be used because that’s false.
High-protein flour is often considered perfect for bread because bakers strive for maximum volume, a tall rise, and an open, light crumb structure. A flour with a high protein content suitable for breadmaking (some flour can be high in protein but not as effective as other modern wheat, like Khorasan, at trapping gasses) can certainly help with all these things. I like to think of high-protein white flour as the metal frame construction of home building: It creates a tall, strong structure that can resist deformation and breakdown, especially during proofing (and will help you avoid that collapsed loaf during baking, too).
But in my experience, using large percentages of this flour (which you’ll often find in beginner recipes) has textural downsides if not correctly accounted for in a bread formula and process—which we will look at soon. Such as recipes for a lean dough (one without butter, eggs, or sugar, such as standard free-form sourdough loaves) can have a leathery crust and a tough, chewy crumb. Contrast this with a loaf made with the same technique, but a medium-protein white flour—a flour around 11-12% protein, such as all-purpose flour—that exhibits a tender, melt-in-your-mouth quality.
Additionally, depending on where you live, high-protein white bread flour may be the predominant flour available to you—this is especially true in North America, particularly Canada, where most of the grain grown is strong wheat. In these locations, even an all-purpose flour may be high-protein. Be sure to check the flour bag (or with the miller) to determine the protein percentage so you know what you’re working with. Regardless, learning to work successfully with this class of flour is essential.
I do not intend this guide to be a statement about how high-protein flour is bad and should never be used—because that’s false. (When I was baking in France, the running joke was that the only flour you can find in the USA is high protein.) When used correctly, it can be an asset in the bread baker’s toolkit, resulting in bread that has a tall rise, delicate crumb, and delicious flavor.
Let’s look at how to accomplish all these things, but first, I need to define what I consider high-protein white flour.
The bread shown above was made with 100% high-protein white bread flour. The recipe and technique can be found in my downloadable Sourdough Bread Baker’s Handbook (including the formula spreadsheet).
What Is High-Protein White Bread Flour?
There’s no agreed-upon percentage that says one flour is high protein versus medium or low protein. But generally, I consider high-protein white bread flour to have a protein percentage from about 12.7% to 14% or even higher. This protein range includes typical “bread flour” as labeled in the United States.
Many millers will indicate the protein percentage of flour on the bag, but if not, a quick search at their website or even an email out to them directly will lead you to the result.
High-protein white flour is useful in recipes that require more chew, a strong structure, or highly enriched doughs. Here are a few examples where I like to use high-protein white bread flour:
- Bagels (strong flour and low hydration give bagels their characteristic chew)
- Pretzels (strong flour helps bring chew and makes shaping and handling easier)
- Focaccia (my highly hydrated focaccia benefits from a strong structure)
- Free-form loaves with lots of mix-ins (like my Jalapeño-Cheddar sourdough bread)
- Bomboloni (Sourdough Doughnuts) (highly enriched with butter)
- Sourdough Cinnamon Rolls (highly enriched with butter and sugar)
See below for some examples of my favorite brands of high-protein flours.
What is “Bread Flour”?
In the United States, the term “bread flour” is used for white flour with high protein content. There isn’t a set protein percentage, but typically, I see this flour containing at least 12% to 13% protein. Essentially, bread flour is high-protein white bread flour. The most notable example of this flour is King Arthur Baking Bread Flour, at 12.7% protein; whereas King Arthur Baking All-Purpose Flour is 11.7% protein.
Why Is Whole Wheat Flour High-Protein?
Whole wheat flour is high in protein because it contains the entire wheat berry, including the bran, endosperm, and germ. Bran is naturally high in protein. Typically, whole wheat flour protein percentages range from 13% to 15% or higher. (For reference, King Arthur Baking Whole Wheat Flour is 14% protein.)
However, unlike high-protein white flour, whole wheat flour will not produce a loaf with ample volume and an open, light interior. But what is sacrificed in terms of volume is more than made up for in terms of flavor and added nutritional value.
If you’re using whole wheat flour and still want a tall rise, you could blend it with an all-purpose or bread flour to get the best of both worlds. This is precisely what I do in my Fifty-Fifty Whole Wheat Sourdough Bread recipe—and it results in bread with incredible flavor and nutrition, as well as a tall rise and open interior.
High-Protein White Bread Flour Benefits and Uses
In a nutshell, these are the benefits of using high-protein white bread flour:
- Provides extra structure and support to a dough
- Makes a dough that better handles long fermentation times before breakdown
- Gives the final product a taller rise and more volume
- Adds chewiness to the final product
I use high-protein white bread flour for any dough that needs extra structure, especially doughs that have a high number of inclusions like fruit or nuts (like my Dark Chocolate-Cherry Sourdough) or doughs that are heavily enriched with butter, egg, or sugar (shokupan/Japanese milk bread is a great example). The high protein content of this flour gives the dough added strength to hang on to and support these additions while still resulting in a bake that rises high.
Perhaps the most well-known use for high-protein flour is for bagels. When eating a bagel, you expect a product with high density and extra chew. For this reason, my bagel recipe calls for 100% high-protein white bread flour (personally, I like Central Milling High Mountain’s)—and it certainly delivers a chewy result.
While high-protein flour has benefits and uses, it also has drawbacks.
The Top 3 Reasons I Use As Little High-Protein White Bread Flour as Possible
When used excessively, high-protein flour can lead to undesirable textural aspects in a final loaf of bread.
In my baking, I always approach a formula with the intention to use as little high-protein white bread flour as possible, relying on other formula changes (like a reduction in dough hydration) to help bring dough strength and stability.
Here are a few reasons why I try to minimize using this flour.
(1) Avoid A Gummy Crumb
This is my primary reason for limiting high-protein white bread flour in my freeform loaves. Due to the high protein content of the flour, I find that when using high percentages in a lean dough (one without enrichments like butter, egg, and sugar, such as a free-form table loaf), the result usually has a gummy crumb, also known as a viscous, sticky, and tough interior. It’s almost like the bread has gone prematurely stale.
(2) Avoid A Tough, Chewy Texture
This ties in with the point above, but there is a significant difference between gummy and tough bread. In almost every case, a tough, leathery texture is not desirable for a loaf of bread. In fact, the opposite is what I’m after: A loaf with a tender, soft, and melt-in-your-mouth texture.
A tough texture presents exactly how you would expect, affecting both the crust and crumb: the crust will be hard to cut through (even with the best bread knife), and the crumb will be rigid, with a stiff mouthfeel.
(3) Can Result In Dense Loaf if Not Properly Hydrated
High-protein white bread flour has such high gluten content that a loaf made with a large percentage of this flour can potentially have a dense and tight crumb structure if the dough is not properly hydrated. While the autolyse technique can somewhat help alleviate this issue, I generally find these doughs require more water added to slacken and soften, allowing for more expansion during fermentation and baking.
The Best Way To Bake Sourdough Bread With High-Protein Bread Flour
Here are a few of my to-go tactics for making sourdough bread with great texture, flavor, and nutrition, even when working with a high percentage of high-protein white flour.
(1) Increase Dough Hydration
In my experience, high-protein white bread flour requires an increase in the dough’s hydration (aka adding more water to a recipe that did not initially call for high-protein flour). No blanket percentage works for all flour, but for me, it’s usually an increase of 5 to 10% water to total flour weight in the recipe (in baker’s percentages—for example, if a recipe calls for 1000 grams of all-purpose white flour and 700 grams water; I would use 1000 grams high-protein flour and 800 or 850 grams water for a 10 to 15% increase). This added water will help produce bread that’s still soft and tender, despite the high gluten content.
Here’s why:
- Gluten Development: Water is necessary for gluten to form; adding a higher percentage of water will lead to a more flexible and loosely bound gluten network. This results in a crumb that’s more open and tender.
- Starch Gelatinization: More water in a dough helps gelatinize its starches during baking. Increased water in the dough will result in more thorough gelatinization and a softer texture.
Remember that adding more water to your dough can make it more challenging to work with because it’ll be slacker and stickier, making shaping more difficult. It’s always best to start with a small hydration increase and work up through subsequent test bakes.
(2) Use The Autolyse Technique
If you visit here often, you know I use the autolyse technique to help increase a dough’s extensibility and reduce the mixing time needed. As I discuss in my in-depth guide to the autolyse technique, it’s not a mandatory step but one I often use, especially with hand-mixed doughs.
Surprisingly, a lot happens when you mix water and flour together and let it sit. But specifically with high-protein flour, it gives enzymes—in this case, most importantly, the protease enzyme—time to work. Protease breaks down protein bonds, which helps result in a dough that’s less elastic (minimizing the tendency of the dough contracting) and more extensible (allowing the dough to expand without tearing).
This is important because using a high percentage of high-protein white flour can produce a highly elastic dough that’s very tight and hard to stretch out during shaping.
(3) Mix and Knead the Dough Less
Because the flour contains more gluten, you won’t need as much mixing to achieve the same overall level of dough development as you would if using all-purpose or medium-protein white flour. This means you can mix and knead the dough for less time and still achieve a dough that’s strong enough to keep shape until baking.
(4) Ferment Longer
Generally, dough with higher protein content can withstand longer fermentation before breaking down, resulting in spreading in the oven instead of rising high. This is especially true with long-fermented dough made with a sourdough starter or levain. This means you can push the final proof of a dough longer than if it was composed mostly of low or medium-protein white flour.
I find this very much the case regarding sourdough pizza dough. While it’s absolutely fine to use medium-protein white flour, such as standard all-purpose, for pizza dough, many pizza makers like to use higher protein flour and longer fermentation time to produce stretchable dough, especially with New York-style pizza, which is a little chewy.
Note: A common misconception is that Type 00 flour, often recommended to home cooks for pizza dough, is high-protein. This is incorrect, and the Italian “type” classification doesn’t say anything about protein percentage; it only indicates that it’s the finest and “whitest” of the flour the mill produces. Actually, Type 00 flour usually has a protein content similar to that of medium-protein white flour.
My Favorite High-Protein White Flours
Here’s a list of my go-to high-protein flour for anything from babka to bagels to sourdough bread with many mix-ins.
| Miller and Flour | Protein Percentage | Comments |
|---|---|---|
| Cairnspring Mills Glacier Peak | 13-14% | Strong, flavorful flour. Great for pretzels. |
| Central Milling High Mountain | 13.5% | My go-to flour for sourdough bagels. |
| Hayden Flour Mills Artisan Bread Flour | 12.1% | Strong flour, but not excessively so. Great for freeform loaves despite its slightly higher protein content. |
| King Arthur Baking Bread Flour | 12.7% | A good all-around staple bread flour great for beginner sourdough loaves and even focaccia. |
High-Protein White Bread Flour FAQs
What is your favorite high-protein flour to use?
I almost always use Central Milling High Mountain or King Arthur Baking Bread Flour when I need high-protein white flour.
Is high-gluten flour the same as bread flour?
They are both considered higher-protein flours than medium-protein flour, such as all-purpose flour, which is typically around 11% protein.
Can I substitute bread flour for high-gluten flour?
Generally, yes. “Bread flour” typically refers to flour that’s higher in protein and at least 12%. High-gluten flour can also range between 12% to 15% or more. When I read “high-gluten flour,” I typically look for flour that’s 13% to 14% or more. With most flour, the miller should list the protein percentage directly on the bag, if not, a quick search online or an email to the miller will help you find this information.
Is high-gluten flour the same as “strong flour?”
Yes, these terms refer to the same flour stronger than typical all-purpose or medium-protein white flour.
What’s Next?
I hope this guide helps you navigate the confusing high-protein white bread flour category the next time you search for the perfect flour for your sourdough bread. Again, it’s flour that absolutely has its uses in the kitchen, though it is one that I am hesitant to use unless the need truly is there.
If you’re looking to use high-protein white flour, my sourdough bagels and sourdough pretzels are two perfect places to put it to work!
55 Comments
When I was still living in the States, in Seattle, I used Wheat Montana 15% for my high protein. Have you ever tried it?
Also, I found I can use just whole wheat flour in my bread if I use a flour that is around 80-85% extraction.
What is your go to bread flour. It seems to me that all my flours are too high in protein. I have been using Central Milling Artisan bread flour but maybe I should be using something with less protein. Artisan bread flour has less protein than high mountain, but for everyday sourdough what flour do you recommend.
Thank you Maurizio you’ve made my bread even better. I can’t believe It. This while time I thought high protein was the best for artisan loafs. Just made a batch using 11.5% Protein and wow super thin crust and great crumb.
I grew up eating San Francisco sourdough, and my quest for the perfect loaf is to avoid the tooth-pullingly chewy Boudin-style bread.
Since relocating and not wanting to spend nearly $70 on shipping Central Milling flours, I am now blending 80% King Arthur All-Purpose Flour with 10% Bread Flour at a hydration level of 75%. Believe Maurizio Leo when he emphasizes the benefits of autolyse; I let my dough autolyse for two hours to achieve a thin, crispy crust and an open crumb—but not so full of holes that every topping leaks out. While it may be sacrilegious to some, a sourdough bread crumb that is too airy is not my ideal. After a lifetime of enjoying sourdough from the most renowned bakeries in the San Francisco Bay Area, I now prefer a loaf that has more substance and actual bread than holes.
Cate, I completely understand what you're aiming for with your sourdough. That middle ground between ultra-open crumb and more substance is actually what many bakers prefer – bread that's both beautiful and practical for everyday use.
Your 80% KA AP/10% bread flour blend at 75% hydration with an extended autolyse is a solid approach. It's all about making bread that suits your preferences rather than following trends.
Keep baking and enjoying the process!
I've been making sourdough bread for several years using high protein flour( I think its the Dururm wheat variety) without realizing the consequences. The bread was reasonable, tasted excellent, but not as open as would like. I usually add 10 to 20% high protein whole wheat flour to high protein white flour and am getting reasonable crumb if I autolyse 2-3 hours with a hydration around 80%. then use the Rubaud Kneading method to incorporate the levain and start developing dough strength before initiating the stretch and folds. I found out over time to properly build structure one had to do the correct folds the correct number of times. Too many folds or too strong folds could break the structure into a sticky mess. I am still struggling to determine the correct time of bulk fermentation before shaping. Lastly it has also taken time to learn correct shaping techniques. Even if you do all this right, You still have to score it correctly and bake it for the right time at the right temperature. Its been an adventure, but I have been determined to figure this out because I like my sourdough bread so much better than the grocery story breads and even the sourdough bakery breads. I am going to switch over to lower protein flours as soon as my supply of high protein flour is depleted. I hope I see a lighter more open structure with a lot of the same taste I get with high protein flour. I'll keep you posted.
You've already identified several key insights—especially about fold intensity and frequency being a balancing act. Too gentle and the dough lacks strength; too aggressive and you break down what you've built.
For bulk fermentation timing, I'd recommend focusing less on the clock and more on visual cues. Look for about a 30-50% volume increase, domed surface, and bubbles visible along the sides of your container. These indicators work across different flours and environments.
Switching to a moderate protein flour (11-12%) might give you that more open crumb you're seeking. The extremely high protein durum wheat can indeed create a tighter structure that's harder to expand, but I've seen this with durum regardless. It does tend to produce a tighter crumb. You might find that bread flour or a good all-purpose flour blended with your whole wheat gives you better results, but the flavor of durum is fantastic. A tradeoff.
I'm looking forward to hearing how that transition goes! Keep experimenting and enjoying your baking journey.
I'm from New Brunswick , Canada. Thank you for confirming that my bread would be making my recipe look dryer! I was using bread flour from Walmart Canada and all of my recipes looked so much dryer than the video's I was watching people mix up. I finally thought maybe it was walmart compared to the brand name Robin Hood flour that was the problem. As soon as I starred to research it I saw the bread flour in the US is different than in Canada. I switched back to the Robon Hood all purpose and things are going way better. There wasn't enough moisture to make my bread rise. Also I was only mixing with the dough wisk and I think finishing the mix by hand definitely helps get the water all mixed in. So any Canadians use all purpose or add more water if it's just not rising during bulk fermentation. Thanks again for explaining this so well!
Sorry don't know how to edit. I meant to say my flour at the beginning!
This is a great tip for other Canadian bakers who might be wondering why their dough looks different from what they see in videos or photos from American bakers. Adjusting hydration upward (a great fix!) or using all-purpose instead of bread flour can make a difference.
Thanks for sharing your experience—these regional flour differences are so important to understand!
Sorry I had software issues with my previous comment and ended up purchasing a membership to see if that enabled me to comment with out continual interference. Guess what; it worked and I am back to finish my comment below.
I now suspect a lot of my problems with sourdough may have stemmed from using the high protein flour (13.1%). I did increase my hydration to around 80% but had a hard time working with the slack sticky dough. I even thought the stickiness was a result of overworking the dough and disrupting gluten web formation. I went to the internet and tried different techniques and different recipes, mostly without adding the commercial yeast as before. I always used the local Montana Wheat high protein flour and had to eliminate the 10% whole wheat flour to get reasonable open crumb. I decided the result tasted too much like "Wonderbread" lacking texture and flavor, so I went back to the Forkish hybrid yeast/levain bread and have gotten a bread with reasonable open crumb that has the taste and texture we like.
I am excited and hopeful to try your "beginner's" recipe, using high protein white and wheat flour; without the addition of commercial yeast, to see if I can get your results.
Thank you, Maurizio, for your work and insight in helping me understand the nuances involved in making sourdough bread. I look forward to reading more if not all of your articles for further insight.
Pete, thanks for sharing your experience! Actually, while high protein flour (13.1%) can typically handle more water, it sounds like that hydration level might have been too much for that particular Montana Wheat flour. Each flour behaves differently, so don't hesitate to adjust the hydration down until you find what works best for your specific flour and environment. Glad you're exploring different combinations to find what works best for your taste. Looking forward to hearing how the beginner recipe turns out!
Hi Maurizio,
Very interesting and enlightening article. I live in Montana and have been making sourdough bread for about ten years using Wheat Montana high protein flour (13.1 %). I started following Ken Forkish, making Hybrid bread with commercial yeast and levain. I was somewhat successful, but struggled with sticky dough and inadequate oven rise. I went down a lot of rabbit holes on the internet, but ha
Very nice article! And cool that you can get Cairnsprings in New Mexico. I have been using Forkish's "FWSY" Pain de Campagne recipe for many years. In the last few years, I've experimented with the "second run". Forkish tells you to discard your leftover levain. I do not do that, that's good stuff! I first make a poolish by adding a cup of Cairnspring's regular white bread flour and two cups of water to the leftover levain (there's about 500 grams left of that). I let that ferment overnight, sometimes as long as 24 hours. I then add a mix of: 5% spelt (Bluebird Farms), 7% Einkorn (Bluebird), 5% whole wheat (usually King Arthur, sometime's Bob's Red Mills), and the rest I split between Cairnsprings Glacier Peak and their regular bread flour. To that, I add two cups of finely chopped green olives, one cup of finely chopped fresh rosemary (from our front yard) and two cups of finely grated sharp cheddar cheese. I also add 21 grams of salt and 2 grams of dry yeast. It is the best bread I've made! That Einkorn gives it a slightly nutty flavor, and the spelt gives a nice firm crust. It is delicious toasted or for sandwiches.
Whoa, I'm on board with that, sounds absolutely delicious!
Thank you for this article! I live in Portland OR and we have a wonderful local-ish mill (Camus Country Mill) that supplies a variety of locally grown and milled flours. Because I bake so much, and make pizzas in our woodfired backyard oven, I like to buy 50# bags of flour. Right now I am really stuck trying to choose the right truly AP flour that will be good for bread, rustic baked goods (muffins scones pies etc) and pizza. I know ideally I would have different flour for each but that is cost prohibitive and also requires storage capacity and organization that I lack. What I do do is grind rye and wheat berries at home to add to my dough and give my bread extra flavor, character and nutrition.
What percentage protein would you suggest for me to try for a 50# bag? Since you are a flour nerd I am also including a link to Camus Country Mill and their product guide. https://www.camascountrymill.com/new-page-3
Any input from you would be amazing thank you so much!
To bad no European flours listed, though i use caputo ora and a manatoba high protein white flour and a no name whole wheat.
I wish I had access to more to test with so I could list them! But yes, anything labelled "manitoba" should be rather strong.
I have been using Einkorn Flour, both all purpose and whole grain, because it is the original wheat before hybridization and has the maximum nutritional value. It turns out quite dense but very tasty. Have you worked with Einkorn and do you have any suggestions?
Yes, I've worked with Einkorn often. In fact, I have a few recipes here: https://www.theperfectloaf.com/einkorn-sourdough-bread/
Hi Maurizio,
Thank you for those explanations on the different type of flour. Living in Montreal, Canada, I cannot find any of the flour you use in USA but I manage between some so called bread flour which are absolutely not white (La milanaise #50 at 11,5% protein or Abenakis at 16,6% protein) a so called all purpose flour at 16,6% protein (Abenakis ou Lacoste) and others… but with all your explanations I do math, I mix flours and I succeed to bake quite good bread every week since over a year !
Francine P
Hello Francine,
I also live in mtl. I am a sourdough beginner and I’ve been having issues finding the right flour. I just bought the abenakis wheat bread flour 16.6% protein and i also have the Milanaise AP flour (not the #50).
I am actually confused, is the abenakis wheat bread flour a whole wheat or a white wheat bread flour?
Also, would you mind sharing the quantiy of each flour in your mix?
I would greatly appreciate. Enjoy the nice weather! Thanks!
Great work there, Francine! It's hard to list flour that's globally available, so it'll take finding something comparable in your area. Happy baking!
Hi Maurizio,
I’ve been working with a few different flours from Barton Springs Mill (BSM) in my bread making and Cinnamon Rolls and finding they behave so differently than KABF.
Recently I’ve been using BSM Big Country 00 11% mixed with BSM Yecora Rojo WW 12% which yields an extremely strong dough, easy to work with dough at 77% hydration. Comparatively, the same 77% hydration using KABF 12.7% and BSM Yecora Rojo 12% yields a more slack dough that is more in line with what I see other bakers working with.
Why is this? The percentages are similar but the BSM seems to absorb so much more water at a lower percentage than the KABF.
Due to the strength, I’ve increased my percentages to 80% which then begins to yield dough similar to what I would get using KABF at 77%.
Do you find there is a differece in crumb structure between a slacker dough vs. stronger dough?
Lastly, do know if BSM has a flour that behaves similar to KABF? I’ve only worked with a few of their flours and so far all are extremely strong compared to KA.
In the end, every flour is going to perform differently, and the numbers (specifications) are important to help you get a ballpark idea of what the flour will feel like, at the end of the day, testing and adjusting in your own kitchen is the only real way to see if a flour works for you!
It sounds like you're doing all the right things here, adjusting to suit your flour.
I would say that BSM flour will likely need more water when mixing, and it could also benefit from a longer autolyse for most doughs:
https://www.theperfectloaf.com/guides/how-to-autolyse/
Thank. You so much Maurizio, living in Montreal, almost none of the flour you recommande in your recipes are available. Those informations are very helpful to me !
You’re very welcome, Francine! Happy baking 🙂
P.S. I *love* Montreal. I was just up there and gosh, what a beautiful city.
HI Maurizio ,
I am not sure about higher protein flour which require less mixing.
From my experience and from what I have always been reading stronger flours require more mixing time .
That’s very interesting! I have always experienced the opposite. See my comments to @barnstormer below!
Hi Massimo,
Could you please point me in the direction of your sources on this topic! Much appreciated.
Thank you
Hi Maurizio,
Thank you for the informative post. I was wondering if you could expand on point #3 re: mixing times.
I’m a baker based in the UK. It has always seemed logical to me that when working with a higher protein flour (let’s take a roller milled North American heavily sifted flour for example) it will have a greater capacity for forming gluten, therefore it should need less (high speed) mixing. A few of my more experienced colleagues maintain the opposite – more protein = more mixing. This seems like a very straight forward question but there is very little information I can find that can give me straight answer.
Thank you
Very interesting, the comment above yours also mentioned more mixing time needed for higher protein flour, whereas I’ve always experienced it as the opposite! I could see the point that if there is more total protein, it will take more mechanical input to develop that protein. In my experience, though, I tend to stop mixing the dough earlier with higher protein flour because it *feels* “strong enough” and doesn’t require more.
Though, I think in the end it comes down to the fact that whatever flour you’re using it always needs to be properly developed to suit your process and formula.
Re: your last point, absolutely. We were up until very recently working with predominantly strong roller milled imported flour for our house country loaf. Average protein would be anything from 12.4 – 12.7%. Total dough hydration 78-81% range. Mix would get an autolyse for 30 minutes and then typically 7-8 minutes high speed mixing in a spiral mixer; vs 4 minutes now we’ve switched to 100% UK Stoneground. It could be down to a couple of other factors, but IMO I always felt it would yield a dough that was a bit too elastic and unruly to shape. The process would reliably produce large loaves though. I think we also mix to fuller gluten development mechanically vs developing via more folds (and time) purely down to scheduling as we are fairly high volume for a small team and space!
https://www.instagram.com/p/CJq6ptRjl37/ interested to learn here that Tartine use very minimal second speed mixing for their Country.
Thank you!
Very interesting! I’m going to have to experiment further with these ideas. I’ll ask around to some of my baker contacts, too.
RE: Tartine, I do wonder about that crazy cool mixer though, maybe second speed isn’t super necessary in there due to its effectiveness (especially if it aerates/oxidizes the dough signfiicantly)… Or maybe their s&f’s take care of further development needed since they do a rather intensive shaping process.
I imagine aeration would be minimal if they’re only mixing on first speed as a means to incorporate everything? It would be interesting to know the fold and final bulk schedule yes!
https://youtu.be/X2qQ_ufyO_E?si=fJFcr9fkw3DST1NT&t=110 I came across this old video of Dave Miller doing a demo and he mentions higher protein flours benefiting from more mixing and goes into hand mixing vs mechanical, which methods suit different flours etc 🙂
Thanks for sharing that video, it’s been a long while since I’ve seen him talk bread, brings back memories!
I wonder though, I know they (DM especially) uses mostly whole grain flour (and freshly milled), and with that flour it’s certainly higher in protein thanks to the bran/germ present in the flour, but also, with those doughs that have a lot of whole grain, they absolutely benefit from more mixing.
Definitely going to be experimenting with this more.
This is so true in Canada. I have found my bread making is very forgiving when I don’t pay as much attention to all the stretch and folds, and leave it on its own a bit too long. The hydration can be very tricky, our weather changes so quickly and seasonally, I find this to be the greatest influence on my bread. Saying that, experience and a feel for the dough’s texture while mixing has been my best guide. I thank you Maurizio. You have been a wonderful wealth of knowledge, especially for us home bakers.
Weather changes are always such a tricky thing. Here it gets very cool at night, but blazing hot during the day. Always keeping me on my toes. Happy this has helped!
I’ve been going down rabbit holes trying to understand differences in flours. There’s a lot of info on levels of protein but almost nothing I could find on how it affects the flour’s behavior, the end product, and how to make adjustments. Super helpful article so thank you!
So glad this was helpful, Sasha!
Here in New Zealand the strongest flour I’ve been able to find is 11.5%. Would that explain why when I use your recipes exactly the dough is very slack and sticky (even with a lot of stretches and folds)? I never get the billowy dough that you see on various videos – there’s always something sticking to the bench and my hands.
You can get 10kg of strong flour from Bidfood.
I would guess that your flour needs a reduction in hydration, Rachael. You are in a much more humid environment than me but it might simply be a typical adjustment needed to suit your flour!
Will adding vital wheat gluten to all-purpose flour have the same effect as using bread flour? When should vital wheat gluten be used at all?
This is such a good question, John. I personally have never used VWG because the flour here is already strong enough. I never use it! But in some cases, I could see it being beneficial (for example, if you lived somewhere and the only flour was a very soft variety with < 10% protein or so).
Excellent read. Can I print it for future reference without the advertising, Maurizio?
Thank you, Veronica. Oof, I dont have a print function for this post (because it’s not a recipe). Let me see if I can figure out a way to add this, I think you’re right, it would be very helpful. (Sorry it’s not there already!)
Based on this, when making your sandwich buns, shoule I use HP flour (at least partially)?
You call for AP, but it’s quite enriched
I usually like to start with AP, then use stronger flour if the buns aren’t rising tall enough. But for those which are heavily enriched, starting with HPF works just fine! The high level of enrichments offsets most of the negative aspects to using strong flour, in my experience.
Hey Maurizio,
You mention here that Canada specifically has a lot of this flour.
Being from Alberta, Canada this is super true.
I have been struggling to make a lot of your recipes work. Anything that is not a pan loaf is sure to just pancake while baking, and shaping is a nightmare. But your suggestions here seem that they only worsen my problems?
While I am not an overly experienced sourdough baker, I am very comfortable in the kitchen and with food, and flours in general.
I follow the instructions as close as possible, measuring ingredients by weight, taking temperature, and paying attention to my dough and starter.
I feel my issues comes down to flour. As I am getting good gluten development (window paining when required and etc) but most recipes come out with absolutely no structure, with the worse of them being only a few hydration points away from feeling like pancake batter.
Do you have any suggestions for more readily available flours?
I’m mostly using Robin Hood flour, but can also buy Anita’s. Unfortunately I am located quite rural.
It sounds like your dough is most likely over hydrated—your flour likely isn’t able to take on quite a much water, and that’s ok! Try reducing the hydration by 5% and give it another go—the reduced water should bring strength to the dough and you’ll feel it immediately. Once you find a suitable hydration, you can try to push it back up (if desired), but as you do, take note of how the consistency of the dough changes: the dough will start to slacken out as you add more and more water, this means you’ll likely have to mix more upfront or add another set or two of stretch and folds during bulk fermentation.
Generally, with an increased hydration, you need to mix longer to develop the gluten in the dough to sufficiently support the water added, but this only goes so far. At some point, the flour you’re using just isn’t able to take on any more water and you’ll essentially have a weak and slack dough. It’s always best to start conservatively and work your way up with hydration as you feel out your flour. This is typically why I recommend holding back water during mixing, adding it in as the dough handles it.
Try to keep everything else as consistent as possible and let me know how the next attempt goes!
I am from Canada and was so excited to try the recipes from your book but I had a similar experience to Eric. I reduced the water in the recipes and say an immediate difference.
Thanks for all the great insights and love your book, still my most favourite Xmas gift last year!
Thank you, Kathryn! Glad those mods helped, there’s always some adjustment to be made 🙂
You link cinnamon rolls as an example, but that recipe actually uses all-purpose flour, not bread
Ahh yes, sorry for the confusion there. I alternate between HP and APF for that recipe, depending on what I have on hand 🙂